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075 — Direktlink
01.08.2012, 23:35 Uhr
graham newell



Hi everyone,
Kraandoc and myself talked on the phone last night for nearly an hour ( great conversation Richard ) and came to the conclusion that the sum of the parts don't add up.
If the assumsion of 5 cranes built are

J.D.White
R.G.Stuart
Senn
Manchester Liners
Marine Board Of Hobart

Then all is OK until you try and work out which one went where.
There are two which I am happy with.

Manchester Liners - Maats rental - Sindorf - Santana Cazorla - Pakistan

This machine was rebuilt and new carrier cab added after accident by Sindorf,
the replacement cab quite clearly has a quarterlight window in the side of the new cab much lower than when originally built.
The steering wheel and front jacking point are correct through the chain of owners.

The second machine I am happy with is the Marine Board of Hobart.

Marine Board of Hobart - Boon - Bridge marine.

Again all the bits are in the right place.


Now it starts to get a little muddled.
Firstly I must say that the J.D.White machine is 100% the reworked Sparrows machine, this is fact. It is known that under the yellow J.D.White paint is Sparrows red, it was never stripped, this also means that the original left hand drive of this machine has to be discounted and just about everything else we know about that machine. at the point that J.D.White took delivery, the Sparrows machine was history.
It is understood that this machine was destroyed when it fell into the sea completing sea a defence wall.

This leaves us 2 cranes left
The R.G.Stuart and the Senn machine.
It also leaves us with one more surviver the Muyammad Aslam crane.
As Kraandoc rightly says this is not the ex Senn machine, the front jacking point is in the wrong place.
The Senn jacking point is between the first and second axle,
The Muyammad Aslam jacking point is behind the carrier cab before the first axle

The steering wheel for the Aslam machine is on the left hand side as would the Steering wheel for the Senn machine, but the jacking point is still wrong.

So here is the question,
1, What happened to the Ex Senn crane after Jeddah
2, Did the R.G.Stuart machine survive and get converted to left hand drive to become the Muyammad Aslam machine

Regards (now totally confused)
Graham

Dieser Post wurde am 01.08.2012 um 23:38 Uhr von graham newell editiert.
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076 — Direktlink
01.08.2012, 23:48 Uhr
Hendrik
Moderator
Avatar von Hendrik


Zitat:
graham newell postete 1, What happened to the Ex Senn crane after Jeddah

It went to Pakistan (Karachi), this was confirmed by our user "schwerlastemst" and we see the pictures in posting 008, stating "Karachi" on the cab.

It post 001 Ralf Neumann states that 3 units are up working in Pakistan (as of 2005). If this is correct, then these are the units:

1) Senn
2) Bermuda
3) Muyammad Aslam

If the Muyammad Aslam machine is the converted R.G. Stewart machine (and I don't know which other machine it could be, apart from the vague theorie that there was build a 6th unit), then the front jacking points must have been converted, too. I wonder if this is feasible?

best regards, hendrik (also confused)
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077 — Direktlink
01.08.2012, 23:54 Uhr
Hendrik
Moderator
Avatar von Hendrik


Zitat:
Michael MZ postete So dann hab ich von dem "Spanier" mal noch ein paar hochgeladen...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53837461@N06/

1000 Dank Michael, absolut interessant. Mann, was für eine verwarzte Karre!!

Du sagtest, die Bilder kommen aus einem spanischen Forum? Weißt Du noch woher? Vielleicht stand da spanischer Begleittext, der "useful" wäre?

gruß hendrik
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078 — Direktlink
02.08.2012, 00:00 Uhr
Michael MZ



suche schon seit gestern und gerade wieder ;-)

Hallo Hendrik,

könnte ForoCoches (?) gewesen sein, oder das damals wo es hier so viele Diskussionen mit dem Betreiber gab. Mal konnte man sich einloggen, dann warste wieder weg vom Fenster...

Ich habse ja... die Bilder ;-)

LG
Micha
--
www.MHTmodels.de
www.schwerlast-rhein-main.de
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079 — Direktlink
02.08.2012, 00:39 Uhr
graham newell



Cheers Hendrik,
just looked at post 008 in the thread, I didn't read it properly, so that resolves that machine, thanks for pointing out that.
As for three machines in Pakistan, if that is true in 2005, then there were four survivers,
I don't believe the jacking point would be altered for the Aslam machine so the question is where did this crane come from.
As you say, is there another machine
Regards
Graham
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080 — Direktlink
02.08.2012, 08:28 Uhr
Sebastian Suchanek
Admin
Avatar von Sebastian Suchanek


Zitat:
graham newell postete
If the assumsion of 5 cranes built are

How sure can we be about the 5 units built in total?
Do you, by any chance, have access to Coles factory records?


Regards,

Sebastian
--
Baumaschinen-Modelle.net - Schwerlast-Rhein-Main.de
...von Laien regiert.
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081 — Direktlink
02.08.2012, 14:10 Uhr
graham newell



Hello everyone.
Hot off the press, I have it on authority that there were actually 6 machines, I will confirm later as I am at work at the moment
regards
Graham
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082 — Direktlink
02.08.2012, 20:23 Uhr
graham newell



Sorry for the wait everyone, this I guess is about as good as the information is going to get, go and have a look and I think it answers most of the questions. This thread was so close to the fact that there were 6 cranes and not 5 as the Muyammed Aslam machine did not fit in anywhere.
There are a few details that are different to what I have said, I expect Tony to be more accurate than myself

Here is the link
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonyonthemoon/7692566946/in/faves-62532775@N03/

Look at the link under the picture, sorry i am having trouble linking it any other way.
Regards
Graham

Dieser Post wurde am 02.08.2012 um 20:30 Uhr von graham newell editiert.
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083 — Direktlink
02.08.2012, 22:12 Uhr
kraandoc




Zitat:
graham newell postete
Sorry for the wait everyone, this I guess is about as good as the information is going to get, go and have a look and I think it answers most of the questions. This thread was so close to the fact that there were 6 cranes and not 5 as the Muyammed Aslam machine did not fit in anywhere.
There are a few details that are different to what I have said, I expect Tony to be more accurate than myself

Here is the link
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonyonthemoon/7692566946/in/faves-62532775@N03/

Look at the link under the picture, sorry i am having trouble linking it any other way.
Regards
Graham

So according to the Coles History webiste there were built:

1) Sparrows>rebuilt>J.D. White>?
2) Stanley Davies>?
3) Senn>?
4) Hamilton Port Authority>Maats rental>Sindorf>rebuilt>Santana>?
5) Hobart Marine>Boom>Bridge & Marine
6) Muhammad Aslam & Sons
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084 — Direktlink
02.08.2012, 22:48 Uhr
Hendrik
Moderator
Avatar von Hendrik

Excellent summary, many thanks. This was a very exciting puzzle so far!

Best regards,

Hendrik
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085 — Direktlink
02.08.2012, 23:59 Uhr
graham newell



I think we should continue with another picture, the last few days has been great fun and thanks to Hendrik for starting the thread, on what is one of my all time favourites. I have personally learn't alot about the Colossus and I will keep posting until the pictures run out

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086 — Direktlink
03.08.2012, 23:45 Uhr
graham newell



I have just posted this in my photostream on Flickr, another shot of the J.D.White crane on handover day, it is a shame the very front of the cab is missing, but this shows you just how long the crane actually was with the seventh axle in position for travelling order.

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087 — Direktlink
04.08.2012, 15:27 Uhr
Bernard Haste



Hello Graham,

You state that the J D White machine was definitely the Sparrows reject reworked and that the red paint could be seen underneath the JDW yellow.

Also that the machine was a write off after it fell into the water.

I`m confused about this. One of the drivers of the machine, whilst it was in JDW ownership,does not remember the story about the machine being ex-Sparrows, nor that it was red underneath the yellow, nor that it was written off after it fell in the water.

Can you tell us the source of the information and whether you can supply evidence to support these parts of the story?


I`m beginning to wonder whether the Coles records are still extant and could be examined to elucidate what actually happened.

Bernard
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088 — Direktlink
04.08.2012, 18:02 Uhr
graham newell



Hi Bernard,
When I say ex Sparrows Bernard, it was not a secondhand machine, Sparrows just pulled out of the deal to buy the first one of the production line after it suffered structural failure on test.it was a brand new machine when J.D.White took delivery of it.

The story of the machine falling into the water and being written off was from a reliable sourse, but I will certainly ask where the info came from,it may not have been in J.D.White ownership when or if the accident happened and it may be unfounded after reading the Colossus story.

There was a small picture in the Colossus 6000 brochure if I remember rightly which showed the crane in J.D.White livery, it was a retouched picture because the inside of the cab door had been left red. but all colossus enthusists talk about the red paint under the golden yellow of the J.D.White livery.

As for the coles records, I very much doubt if they exist, if they do the are in the hands of Manitowoc.

I realise that there are still alot of unanswered questions, which I also would love to know the answers to, but we are further down the road to piecing the puzzle together now than we were a few weeks ago. Lets hope we can gather the remaining pieces together in this thread

Kind regards
Graham
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089 — Direktlink
04.08.2012, 18:28 Uhr
Bernard Haste



Hello again,

I understand it was a new machine but I am still querying whether it really was the machine Sparrows had rejected.

Bernard
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090 — Direktlink
05.08.2012, 06:39 Uhr
BUZ



zur Info:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santana_Cazorla
http://www.gruposantanacazorla.com/



HAJI MUHAMMAD ASLAM & SONS
Transportation Projects, Crane & Trawler Service
Allah Malik Building Outside Dry Port, Mughalpura, Lahore, Punjab, Pakistan
Phone: 9242-6810195 / 6810198
Fax: 9242-6810191
Email: hma@lhr.comsats.net.pk


BUZ
--
das beste was ein Mensch werden kann, ist HESSE!
---------------
www.schwerlast-rhein-main.de

Dieser Post wurde am 05.08.2012 um 06:53 Uhr von BUZ editiert.
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091 — Direktlink
05.08.2012, 08:55 Uhr
BUZ



ich habe einen Sechser im Lotto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZC8IL-oIqg

der dritte Collossus 6000 läuft bei Asiacon in Pakistan, zusammen mit vielen Gottwald-Schätzen!
Im o. g. Video mal zu 1:28 min springen, da steht der 7ax Collossus, Frontstützen zwischen Achse 1 & 2, in schönem gelb/schwarz

Leider habe ich noch keine HP zu Asiacon

EDIT:
doch : http://www.asiacon.com.pk/
http://www.asiacon.com.pk/photogallery
http://www.asiacon.com.pk/services/heavy-equipment-lifting
eventuell die ex Senn Maschine?


Greetings from a lucky BUZ
--
das beste was ein Mensch werden kann, ist HESSE!
---------------
www.schwerlast-rhein-main.de

Dieser Post wurde am 05.08.2012 um 09:05 Uhr von BUZ editiert.
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092 — Direktlink
05.08.2012, 10:39 Uhr
Hendrik
Moderator
Avatar von Hendrik


Zitat:
BUZ postete eventuell die ex Senn Maschine?

Na klar!

Volltreffer!

Danke, gruß hendrik

(PS: BUZ, Du guckst Dir wohl auch jeden Scheiß an...)
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093 — Direktlink
05.08.2012, 10:54 Uhr
BUZ



für'nen Virus auf'm Rechner mache ich alles
--
das beste was ein Mensch werden kann, ist HESSE!
---------------
www.schwerlast-rhein-main.de
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094 — Direktlink
05.08.2012, 14:45 Uhr
Michael MZ



Prima Link, Danke! ;-) Schade das sich die Thumbnails nicht öffnen lassen, bei mir jedenfalls nicht :-( ...
--
www.MHTmodels.de
www.schwerlast-rhein-main.de
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095 — Direktlink
05.08.2012, 18:22 Uhr
kraandoc




Zitat:
BUZ postete
ich habe einen Sechser im Lotto!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZC8IL-oIqg

der dritte Collossus 6000 läuft bei Asiacon in Pakistan, zusammen mit vielen Gottwald-Schätzen!
Im o. g. Video mal zu 1:28 min springen, da steht der 7ax Collossus, Frontstützen zwischen Achse 1 & 2, in schönem gelb/schwarz

Leider habe ich noch keine HP zu Asiacon

EDIT:
doch : http://www.asiacon.com.pk/
http://www.asiacon.com.pk/photogallery
http://www.asiacon.com.pk/services/heavy-equipment-lifting
eventuell die ex Senn Maschine?


Greetings from a lucky BUZ

Das konnte eine der 3 folgende 200 ton Colossus sein:

- J.D. White (GB)
- Stanley Davies (GB)
- Senn (CH)
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096 — Direktlink
05.08.2012, 21:54 Uhr
Hendrik
Moderator
Avatar von Hendrik


Zitat:
kraandoc postete Das konnte eine der 3 folgende 200 ton Colossus sein:
- J.D. White (GB)
- Stanley Davies (GB)
- Senn (CH)

It's clearly the Senn unit which went in 1986 from Saudi Arabia to Pakistan. The distuingishing feature here is the long tool boxes on the main running beams of the carrier.

(Ganz klar der Senn, zu erkennen an den langen Werkzeugstaukisten am Unterwagenrahmen.)

gruß hendrik
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097 — Direktlink
06.08.2012, 22:25 Uhr
graham newell



The Sparrows machine still has one of the unanswered questions that has been intriguing me for a while, why was it built as a left hand drive machine ?.
Here is another picture, again another official Coles picture but kindly lent to me by Kraandoc, thankyou.

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098 — Direktlink
06.08.2012, 23:06 Uhr
Hendrik
Moderator
Avatar von Hendrik


Zitat:
graham newell postete The Sparrows machine still has one of the unanswered questions that has been intriguing me for a while, why was it built as a left hand drive machine ?[/img]

The imported cranes from the Continent and from the US were all LHD, and maybe both Coles and Sparrows thought in the beginning that LHD would be the right choice for the crane drivers? (I don't know exactly the Sparrows fleet at that time, but really can imagine that the majority of their cranes were LHD?)

It is also possible that due to the massive width of the crane Coles might have thought in the beginning of the design that a LHD concept is safer to steer the crane through small roads.

Just my 2 cents.

Best regards, Hendrik
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099 — Direktlink
07.08.2012, 06:35 Uhr
Gast:linaprin
Gäste



Zitat:
Hendrik postete

Zitat:
graham newell postete The Sparrows machine still has one of the unanswered questions that has been intriguing me for a while, why was it built as a left hand drive machine ?[/img]

The imported cranes from the Continent and from the US were all LHD, and maybe both Coles and Sparrows thought in the beginning that LHD would be the right choice for the crane drivers? (I don't know exactly the Sparrows fleet at that time, but really can imagine that the majority of their cranes were LHD?)

It is also possible that due to the massive width of the crane Coles might have thought in the beginning of the design that a LHD concept is safer to steer the crane through small roads.

Just my 2 cents.

Best regards, Hendrik

I think you`re right!
In certain period there was an opinion present that the steering wheel should
be located at the "outer side" to get better visibility where the bank of the road is and when bypassing...
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